ASM Online Member Community

 View Only

  • 1.  Archaic Aluminum Grade

    Posted 04-03-2023 08:47
    I have a friend who restores vintage phonographs. He asked me about the material referenced in a patent from 1928. I do not find any information on the aluminum alloy known as 3--S.O. Is this familiar to anyone out there? Thanks, Janine



    ------------------------------
    Janine Borofka
    JLG Senior Chief Engineer - Materials
    Hagerstown MD United States
    ------------------------------
    IMAT Conference & Expo


  • 2.  RE: Archaic Aluminum Grade

    Posted 04-04-2023 07:31
    Edited by Colin Fletcher 04-04-2023 07:42

    I believe 3-S.O. is equivalent to annealed AA designation 3003.


    From "Metals for Use in Handling Organic Solvents" (1924):

    Modern 3003 Composition:
    Si    0.6 Max
    Fe    0.7 Max
    Cu    0.05 - 0.20
    Mn    1.0 - 1.5
    Zn    0.10 Max

    ------------------------------
    Colin Fletcher, PE
    Sr. Advanced Materials Engineer
    Honeywell Aerospace
    Cary NC
    ------------------------------

    Original Message
    IMAT Conference & Expo


  • 3.  RE: Archaic Aluminum Grade

    Posted 04-04-2023 10:54

    Modern Uses of Non-Ferrous Metals edited by C.H. Mathewson, PP30, copyrighted by AIME 1935, sited 3S alloy as commercial aluminum alloyed with 1.25% (weight percent ?) manganese. Usually produced in sheet form. The alloy was developed using manganese that when alloyed to aluminum does not increase susceptibility to corrosion.

    It would seem aluminum with 1.25% Mn has devolved into AA3003 which further specifies other deliberate alloying elements as well as limiting some elements that are undesirable that alter corrosion resistance and alter heat treatment responses.



    ------------------------------
    Timothy Kosto
    Youngstown NY
    (716) 560-9975
    ------------------------------

    Original Message
    IMAT Conference & Expo


  • 4.  RE: Archaic Aluminum Grade

    Posted 04-04-2023 14:48

    Yes, this is an old one. My table was printed in 1950.
    Wrought aluminium alloys had one or to digits followed by S, and possibly other letters indicating heat treatment.
    1 is pure aluminium, 99,5-99,8%
    2 is pure aluminium, 99,0-99,5%
    3 is aluminium  with 1,25 manganese, similar to AA3103 today
    4 is aluminium with 1,25 manganese and 1 magnesium
    Further alloys have two figure digits.
    Have a nice Easter.
    Kåre Johansson



    ------------------------------
    Kare Johansson
    Mr
    K.A.Johansson materialkonsult
    Vihals
    +4797954349
    ------------------------------

    Original Message
    IMAT Conference & Expo


  • 5.  RE: Archaic Aluminum Grade

    Posted 04-04-2023 15:43

    As I remember, 1S was 1145, 2S was 1100, 3S was 3003  and  in O temper.  The only time I saw these things in print in 1959 was in a small pocketsize handbook from Blaw Knox mills.



    ------------------------------
    John Fenoglio[P.E.] Secretary-Treasurer
    Wabash Valley Chapter
    Clinton IN
    (765) 832-6568
    ------------------------------

    Original Message
    IMAT Conference & Expo


  • 6.  RE: Archaic Aluminum Grade

    Posted 04-05-2023 07:40

    Here is a picture of the diaphragm, a very lovely component. It is part of a 1927 Victor Talking Machine with RCA parts. The full patent for forming of the diaphragm is at  https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/38/a4/89/906666226e738e/US1984439.pdf

    Thanks for all the information, everyone! I don't see Al-3003 in 0.002" thickness in stock at the usual places but I do find 1000 grades that thin (or thick for foil!)



    ------------------------------
    Janine Borofka
    JLG Senior Chief Engineer - Materials
    Hagerstown MD United States
    ------------------------------

    Original Message
    IMAT Conference & Expo


  • 7.  RE: Archaic Aluminum Grade

    Posted 04-06-2023 09:09

    Several (30+) years ago Anaconda made a .002 x 36-48 (?)" 3003-H18 for backer plate in printed circuit board drilling operations.  If Laminating Co of America in California is still around, you might see if they still use it. It would have to be annealed to do the forming you need. I don't remember whether it was on steel or fiber core.



    ------------------------------
    John Fenoglio[P.E.] Secretary-Treasurer
    Wabash Valley Chapter
    Clinton IN
    (765) 832-6568
    ------------------------------

    Original Message
    IMAT Conference & Expo


  • 8.  RE: Archaic Aluminum Grade

    Posted 04-05-2023 11:09

    The Alloy Finder application within the ASM Alloy Center Database has some entries for a 3S alloy, which appears to be an older designation used for 3003 aluminum sheet. I don't know if the O (annealed) temper designation was in use in the 1920s. 

    Some resources on alloy designations and 3003 aluminum:

    John Weritz, Aluminum Alloy Nomenclature and Temper Designations, Aluminum Science and Technology, Vol 2A, ASM Handbook, Edited By Kevin Anderson, John Weritz, J. Gilbert Kaufman, ASM International, 2018, p 3–30, https://doi.org/10.31399/asm.hb.v02a.a0006482

    3003 and Alclad 3003: General Engineering Alloy, Properties and Selection of Aluminum Alloys, Vol 2B, ASM Handbook, Edited By Kevin Anderson, John Weritz, J. Gilbert Kaufman, ASM International, 2019, p 334–337, https://doi.org/10.31399/asm.hb.v02b.a0006686



    ------------------------------
    Scott Henry
    Senior Content Engineer
    ASM International
    ------------------------------

    Original Message
    IMAT Conference & Expo