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Hello,

I'm working on an order for 418 stainless, better known as "Greek Ascoloy", and I was wondering if anyone knew the origin of that term. Was it invented in Greece by the Asco company?

I've wondered similarly about other alloys with non-standard names like 300M, D6AC, MP35N, etc. I assume that 300M is somehow in reference to the max UTS of 300k ("300M[ax]") but that's just speculation. No idea about D6AC. MP35N is 35% Ni and Co so I'm guessing that's where the 35 comes from but I'm not sure about the MP-N part.

Feel free to add to the thread with any other grades you know of that have interesting stories behind their names!

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Sean Piper
Metallurgical Engineer
Ellwood City Forge
Ellwood City, PA
7248248333
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Interesting question. I did a quick Google search and found nothing on the origin of the name. I do agree that the Ascoloy comes from Asco. It would be interesting if Greek was the name of an engineer involved in its development, rather than a reference to the country. I have no reason to think that is true, but I suggest it due to the origin of "German Chocolate".

German Chocolate, as in German Chocolate Cake, is named after Samuel German, an employee of Baker's Chocolate, who developed a sweeter baking chocolate in the 1800s. Baker's chocolate published the recipe for German Chocolate Cake to promote use of the ingredient. And guess what? Baker's Chocolate is named after Dr. James Baker. The ingredient was originally names Baker's German's Sweet Chocolate, which takes the cake (pun intended) for cumbersome product names and counter-intuitive product name origins.

You are probably right about the 300 in 300M representing tensile strength in ksi, but I wouldn't say that is the maximum tensile strength, even after tempering to achieve reasonable toughness. It is more like the middle of the typical useful range. Maybe the M stands for "modified" as it is essentially a modified 4340. Why not call it 4340M? Maybe they wanted it to sound more "revolutionary" than just a modified version of an existing alloy.

As another tangential aside, my company uses the 300 grade maraging steel. 18Ni300 is a standard designation but it is also known by various trade names. We call it MAR300 in our internal inventory systems. The first suggestion for our internal designation was M300, which I did not allow due to potential confusion with 300M. Nonetheless, and despite having the full word "Maraging" on the purchase order, we recently had a supplier incorrectly ship 300M.

Now some joke materials. I like to call the metallic material that covers scratch-off lottery tickets Dreamonium (Dream-On-ium), but I can't claim to have made that up. Then there is unobtanium, which was a joke among materials people before it was a fictional material in Avatar. Unobtanium would be the material you suggest when a mechanical engineer asks for something as strong as the hardest tool steel, but with the density of aluminum.

This is what Google's "Bard" has to say about Greek Ascoloy:

"The name "Greek Ascoloy" is a trade name for a nickel-chromium-molybdenum alloy that was developed in India. The name is a combination of the words "Greek" and "ascoloy", which is a shortened form of "austenitic chromium-nickel-molybdenum alloy". The alloy was developed by the Parmanu Dhatu Nigam (PLIN), a government-owned company in India. PLIN is the largest producer of stainless steel in India, and they also produce a variety of other alloys, including Greek Ascoloy.

The name "Greek Ascoloy" is not trademarked, so it is not unique to PLIN. Other companies in India and around the world also produce alloys that are called "Greek Ascoloy". However, the alloy that is produced by PLIN is considered to be the original Greek Ascoloy."

Sean,

The TL;DR is "marketing".  Many, possibly most, alloys were developed by commercial concerns and were marketed as the new wonder material in their specific area, and catchy or technical-sounding names helped do that.  Later, specifications were written that codified the successful alloys with worthwhile performance into standard grades.  I did learn today when using a search engine that Ascolia was a region in ancient Greece.  So I'm willing to bet that someone wanted to celebrate their heritage in the alloy name.  I didn't find anything specific in my oldest handy reference, a 1961 Metals Handbook, other than the alloy being listed in the heat resistant alloy table under Greek Ascoloy.  So that reference name is well over 60 years old!

I do recall reading that René 41, another HR alloy, was named for the developer's wife.  The developer worked at GE at the time, IIRC.  We had in the work library a couple of different volumes of alloy trade names to use when trying to trace what an old blueprint reference might mean.  One was from ASTM, DS45A - (1972) Compilation and Index of Trade Names, Specifications, and Producers of Stainless Alloys and Superalloys.  There were a LOT of imaginative numbers and made-up names in such references.

I'm reminded of a materials selection strategy that I playfully used.  When someone asked what to make something out of, if cost was a factor, always start with steel.  If cost is not, then call out MP35N, which according to the press release exceeded almost all other materials available for strength and heat resistance, and cost.  Iterate between those two levels to find something more suitable if needed.

Finally I'll repeat an observation of which I don't recall the source: A new material will never exceed the performance claims made in its initial press release.  Particularly if a university professor is involved in writing those projections.

Paul, 

the way I've always heard it is "The first thing you hear about a new material is always the best thing you'll hear about it". Useful to keep in mind!

I will have to remember that. I sometimes get an email forwarded from someone a few levels above me about some revolutionary material that is said to be stronger and lighter than steel, and made from some type of garbage (chitin from inedible parts of shrimp or agricultural waste, stuff like that) or is some nanostructured material that was basically built  up one atom at a time. 

My response (to my boss, who expresses it more politically to the person asking) has been, "I see one or two of those every week, but not a single one has been commercialized as of yet." In some cases, that is a bit of a lie as some of these things do get commercialized on a small scale for niche applications, but it gets the point across.

Can't find the reference right now but I recall reading that the word "Greek" was applied in jest because the phase diagram had so many Greek letters indicating phase fields.

As far as MP35N - this is from MIL-HDBK-5J (you can find at everyspec.com):

"7.4 MULTIPHASE ALLOYS 7.4.0 GENERAL This section contains the engineering properties of the "Multiphase" alloys. These alloys, based on the quaternary of cobalt, nickel, chromium, and molybdenum, can be work-strengthened and aged to ultrahigh strengths with good ductility and corrosion resistance. 7.4.1 MP35N ALLOY"

MP = "MultiPhase", a reference to the presence of bcc, fcc and hcp solid solution phases present in significant proportions in this alloy.