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  • 1.  WARNING- Export Controlled

    Posted 05-21-2024 16:12

    Where do you go to discuss Export Control?

    I am mainly interested in the deemed export as the actual export does not happen.  I paid a legal team to tell me that the originating body will tell you what the actual controls are. That lead no answers for the PO's I have that state Export Controlled.

    Now to move on to a material spec where GE B50TF15 S34 states the spec itself is export controlled. 'WARNING- Export Controlled'. 

    Does GE need me to have my computer systems looked down to the NIST 800-171 to read the spec? These are the only controls I see for what GE is calling critical technology.  To supply the metal, I need to know what they are looking for in the spec.  I do not supply the part, just the starting metal.



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    David Kirchner
    Tipton IN
    (765) 945-8230
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    IMAT Conference & Expo


  • 2.  RE: WARNING- Export Controlled

    Posted 05-22-2024 11:54

    David,

    When I was working as a Nadcap Heat Treat Auditor I encountered numerous issues with ITAR and Export Controlled (E/C) parts and information in Aerospace and Defense Manufacturing facilities.  Whoever came up with the concept of ITAR and E/C did not have a good understanding of manufacturing.  ITAR and E/C rules are broad with many negative ramifications which few people completely understand.  Hence you can never get good advice since nobody wants to bear any responsibility.

    As you mentioned the Prime or Design Authority for a component should specify if a part or its specifications are ITAR or EC and this information is required to be passed down through all levels of sub-contractors.  That often is not the case.  I audited facilities where I recognized components for missiles and military applications where the people performing the work had no idea these parts were ITAR or E/C.  

    Regarding your question on GE B50TF15 S34.  You have to be approved by GE to be used as a vendor. Once you are approved they allow you access to these specifications.  You will also need to be Nadcap approved.    Part of the Nadcap approval requires your computer systems to have a certain level of security and this is addressed during a Nadcap Audit.

    If you are looking to become a vendor for GE will probably have to sign some sort of agreement regarding confidentiality of the information shared with you for quoting the part.  Talk with a GE Sourcing person and they can walk you through it.

    Good Luck!



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    Robert Werber
    Principle Engineer
    Planish Inc
    Oregon City OR
    9712218453
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    IMAT Conference & Expo


  • 3.  RE: WARNING- Export Controlled

    Posted 05-22-2024 13:37

    David,

    The Export Control marking on the specification is really referring to how you handle, transmit, and store the document.  Requirements include: Only use secure email with domestic servers, no copies provided to non-citizens, no details of the document provided to non-US entities.  Export Controls are not difficult to understand and are written by people that do understand manufacturing very well.    Good resources for how to handle Export Controls are available online:

    https://2009-2017.state.gov/strategictrade/overview/index.htm

    https://www.trade.gov/us-export-regulations-0

    https://www.bis.doc.gov/index.php/all-articles/25-compliance-a-training/export-administration-regulations-training/1602-export-control-basics

    The BIS.gov website will let you find the specific code that covers the document and the materials that the document cover.

    In the case of the GE specification, it clearly states on the front page which CFRs apply.  Search those CFR sections online and you'll be provided direct links to the specific CFR sections.



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    Tim Barstow
    Quality Manager
    Solar Atmospheres Inc. - Fontana
    Fontana CA
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    IMAT Conference & Expo


  • 4.  RE: WARNING- Export Controlled

    Posted 05-23-2024 16:27

    I do not want to sell metal to GE. I see that their spec is on my stock, but what I find weird that I cannot see this spec itself.

    Your website references look good.  What I noticed is they are all GOV. I believe your comments are for when a government document is marked as Export Control, then follow the government controls apply.  How do you know when a non-government PO has the words Export Control, that it is to be locked down to a government security level of controls listed in those .gov web sites?  It is messed up that the PO arrives in a cloud-hosted email server, but I have to have a domestic server that no non-American citizenship employees will be able to administrate on that system.



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    David Kirchner
    COO
    High Performance Alloys, Inc
    Tipton IN
    (765) 945-8230
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    IMAT Conference & Expo


  • 5.  RE: WARNING- Export Controlled

    Posted 05-24-2024 11:53

    David,

    You have a mill cert with the GE spec on it.  To see the GE spec, you would need to have that flowed to you from the GE supplier that is purchasing material from you, as it is proprietary to GE.  Having the specification be export controlled flags the material to whomever has the certifications for the material that there are restrictions on sales of the material.   In this case, go to the bis.gov site, click the quick link for "Search the EAR", and search "nickel".  You will find a long list of nickel products that are controlled, along with the references to the actual controls and the country charts that the export is restricted from.

    The non-government PO that is marked "Export Controlled" is subject to the requirements laid out on the .GOV websites.  Knowing to do this is part of the due diligence required to understand the regulations that cover the materials on that PO.  Unfortunately, this isn't very well publicized and violations have serious consequences.

      



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    Tim Barstow
    Quality Manager
    Solar Atmospheres Inc. - Fontana
    Fontana CA
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    IMAT Conference & Expo